That Nigeria’s economy is in
recession is no longer news. But whether President Buhari needs
emergency powers to fix the troublesome state of affairs has been in
debate since the Presidency expressed its intention to approach the
National Assembly to seek emergency powers to tackle the economy. In a
chat with May Agbamuche-Mbu, Jude Igbanoi and Tobi Soniyi, Mrs. Chinelo
Bob-Osamor suggests ways through which the nation can get out of its
present economic doldrums. The season journalist, TV personality, lawyer
and rights activist who turns 50 next week expressed her views on
sundry other issues, including her passion for philanthropy.
Currently, President Buhari is seeking
emergency powers to pursue his economic stimulus plan for the economy.
The objectives of the action-plan on the economy, include shoring up the
value of the Naira, creation of more jobs, boosting of foreign
reserves, reviving the manufacturing sector and improving power. Some of
the powers include Virement of Budgetary Allocation to projects that
are urgent, Amendment of certain laws such as the Universal Basic
Education Commission (UBEC) Act. These powers seem to be a usurpation of
the powers of the National Assembly. In your opinion does the
Government need these emergency powers?
I think that all the powers, except the
virement of budgetary allocation, are already within the competence of
the president as Executive President. They are all matters that properly
formulated and articulated economic policies, backed by a strong fiscal
framework can achieve. It is noteworthy that an emergency power to
enable the government engage in virement of budgetary allocation is a
violation of extant legislation prohibiting virement. Such powers will
put the President above the law. What the President needs is a strong,
focused and driven economic team with emphasis on monetary regulation,
job creation and diversification of the economy and not emergency
powers.
The new President of the Nigerian Bar
Association, Mr. A.B. Mahmoud SAN has just assumed office on the wave of
his campaign for a “Brave New Bar”, a call to arms for Nigerian Lawyers
to reinvent the profession positively and proactively. What are your
expectations of the new administration of the NBA?
These are indeed trying times for the
legal profession. The Bar and the Bench have never had it so bad. The
Bench has been plagued by allegations of corruption which is exacerbated
by conflicting judgments from courts of co-ordinate jurisdiction on the
same subject matter. It seems that “black market” injunctions have
become pervasive.
There is no doubt that Nigerian bench is
made up of courageous, competent and incorrigible judicial officers (a
few bad apples notwithstanding).I suspect the bench has been infiltrated
by politics and there is urgent need for the heads of the various
courts to take active steps to ensure that justice is not only done but
is seen to be done
The Bar is not without blemish in this
matter, indeed all originating processes and interim applications are
initiated by members of the Bar. That is where I expect the Nigerian Bar
Association President to actualize the mantra of a “Brave New Bar.” He
should re-invigorate the disciplinary committee of the Bar to ensure
that as many legal practitioners as lead judicial officers into the
temptation of granting “black market” injunctions are brought to book by
the disciplinary committee of the Bar.
Similarly, a brave New Bar should be one
that champions the cause of obedience to court orders. As a Union, the
Bar can decide to withhold its services from those who disobey court
orders.
On Monday 24th June 2013 in Edo State,
after six years of observing a United Nations Resolution 62/149 on the
Moratorium on the use of the Death Penalty, four men were hanged to
death in compliance with a court imposed Death Sentence. With that,
Nigeria’s relatively brief moratorium on the death penalty ended and we
have seen the re-introduced Capital Punishment since then. Although you
have been a strong proponent for the Abolition of the Death Penalty,
many have argued that the Death Penalty is a necessary deterrent to the
perpetration of heinous crimes or crimes that threaten the security of
the state. How do you reconcile these very pressing needs, the
protection of the state against the life of an individual convicted of
heinous or threatening crimes?
Up till recently I could be described as
a Pro-life Activist/Lawyer. I was completely against death penalty. In
my article on the PETER NEMI v THE STATE, I not only supported the
argument that condemned criminal’s human rights should not be
compromised on account of his sentence but I questioned the rationale
behind death sentence in its entirety. You know all the argument of its
not being a deterrent; the possibility of taking the life of an innocent
person amongst others.
However, recent happenings globally have
really affected my position. An example is the rise and spread of
terrorism worldwide. A suicide bomber who obviously has rejected his
right to life embarks on a mission to kill as many innocent people as
possible. For him it is a case of the more the merrier. It is unlikely
such a person can be reformed by incarceration. I think the state should
assist convicted terrorists achieve death which is their goal. Death
penalty will ensure that they do not take others as casualties with
them.
After so many years of lobbying, the
Violence Against Persons Bill was eventually passed into law only last
year. But there appear to be many challenges in its implementation
already. It has not been tested in our courts with any great
consideration, despite the growing incidence of domestic violence. What
should be the approach to addressing this issue?
Indeed violence against persons has been
on the increase. Unlawful killings on mere allegation of blasphemy or
suspicion of having committed an offence (Lynching) and general
religious intolerance have all conspired to upstage domestic violence
which seems to be the main target of the Violence against Persons Act.
The law is timely and welcome. The law seeks to address clearly
identifiable violent conducts. However, the implementation by law
enforcement agents and the interpretation by the law courts will
eventually expose the lapses in the law while crystallizing the positive
aspects of the law, by way of decided cases. We should be patient and
allow this piece of legislation to be tested in the courts thereafter
the legislature will have the opportunity to make amendments where
necessary to bring the law in conformity with the needs of the society.
Nigeria has still not passed the
Convention on the Elimination of All forms of Discrimination Against
Women (CEDAW) into national law, in spite of the fact that we have long
since signed the convention’s protocol and accession treaty. Does this
explain the current difficulties faced in the protection of Women’s
rights in Nigeria?
The convention on the Elimination of All
forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW) is a laudable piece of
legislation that has very noble intentions. Before CEDAW, our laws
contain Copious provisions that guarantee and protect the rights of
women, primarily as human beings and particularly as women. It seems to
me that the Challenge is not just in the domestication of CEDAW but in
the practical implementation of the provisions in our extant laws that
guarantee protection of human and women rights. For example there is no
written law that prohibits women from standing surety for bail but in
practice it is not done despite the clear provision of the
Administration of Justice Law that guarantees that right to women. More
should be done in the implementation of the provisions in our extant
laws even as we await the domestication of CEDAW.
Statistics from the United Nations
Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) has revealed that out of the 67,000
prisoners held in the various Nigerian prisons, Awaiting Trial Persons
make up to 72 percent of that total population. Furthermore there has
been a significant increase in the incidents of jail break in the
country. In your opinion how can government and other stakeholders
improve Prisons Administration?
The challenges facing our detention
facilities are multi-faceted. First of all, the detention facilities
Nationwide were built to accommodate less than 20% of their present
occupants (inmates). Consequently, they are overcrowded and the warders
are overworked. It is only logical that a prison facility that is
overstretched is prone to bursting occasionally at the seams. The
administration of criminal justice system grinds slowly but surely.
Trials are slow and protracted, when they commence at all. This has led
to a backlog of persons awaiting trial. They currently outnumber the
convicts whom the prisons were built for in the first place.
We need to build bigger and better
equipped prisons that will achieve the reformation and rehabilitation of
prisoners envisaged by the law.
Also, suspects should not be arrested at
random without proper investigation. The law enforcement agents should
be ready to go to court soon after an arrest of a suspect. This will in
no small way will reduce the number of persons awaiting trial.
Lastly all the laws that militate
against speedy trials of suspected persons must either be repealed or
amended. The administration of Criminal Justice Act 2015 has made giant
strides in this respect, for instance it has put a limit to the number
of adjournments that is allowed in one case and restrained interlocutory
applications.
There have been allegations that
anti-corruption agencies under this present administration are not
respecting human rights in the fight against corruption by detaining
suspects for long periods clearly prohibited in national laws and
ignoring court orders. Do you share this view?
There is no doubt that the fight against
Corruption is a battle for the very soul of the nation and I commend
the government for its political will in this direction. In prosecuting
that war however, the government must endeavor to do so within the
ambits of the law. Due process must be adhered to strictly.
The Constitution presumes every accused
person innocent until proven otherwise by a court of Competent
jurisdiction. Consequently media trials are in bad taste and a violation
of the presumption of innocence. Similarly charging suspects to court
and denying them bail because investigation is ongoing is a violation of
their right to personal liberty. While the denial of adequate time and
facilities to a suspect to prepare for their defence, caused by a denial
of bail, is a violation of the Constitutional safeguard in that regard.
Despite the fact that some states have
passed the Child Rights Act into state law, children are still being
abused and denied their basic rights to dignity and healthcare. How
should this administration be looking to improve on the welfare of
children? What steps need to be taken to make this a reality?
There is no dearth of laws in Nigeria.
We have multiplicity of laws addressing several and same issues at the
same time. Before the Child rights Act, The National Agency for the
Prohibition of Trafficking in Persons Act (NAPTIP) made adequate
provisions against Child labour, and related offences, ditto for other
legislations, the challenge has always been enforcement. The government
should embark on massive re-orientation for our law enforcement
agencies. They need to be taught the importance of these laws, the
traumatic and psychological effect of these offences on children and the
long term effect on the larger society. In many parts of Nigeria,
violence against children is merely seen as corporal punishment which is
for their own good. Just as victims of rape are often perceived as
having brought it upon themselves. This mindset has to change and that’s
why we need re-orientation.
Closely related to the rights of
children in Nigeria are the challenges faced by the girl child in
Nigeria. For instance we have little to no statistical information of
the rates of sexual abuse, and the same is true for the investigation
and prosecution of offences that fall under this area. How can we change
the attitude of law enforcement agencies to the prosecution of sexual
offences?
Sexual offences are usually victimless
crimes because the victim, faced with stigmatization and the odium
associated with the offence, is usually unwilling to prosecute or be a
witness in the prosecution of the alleged offender. Beyond the
re-orientation of our law enforcement agents, government need to amend
the laws to allow the victims of rape and other sexual offences to
testify in camera .We also need an express provision that sexual
offences cannot be plea-bargained.
The human rights community seems to have
accepted the non-justiciability of socio-economic rights such as the
rights to shelter, health and to engage in economic activity. How then
do we hold the Government accountable to the Directive Principles of
State Policy as enshrined in Chapter II of the Constitution and ensure
that government takes these rights seriously?
Chapter II of the 1999 Constitution
adequately provides for fundamental objectives and directive principles
of state policy. These are ideal goals and objectives that any
well-meaning government should take seriously. This is what is fondly
referred to as social and economic rights. By their nature economic and
social rights are nebulous. How do you guarantee the right to work in an
economy in recession, the right to adequate health services in a
country with dilapidated health facilities, the right to education in a
country that can barely admit 30 percent of qualified candidates. They
will remain non-justiciable for a long time. However this does not
absolve government of its duty to create enabling environment for
economic and social rights to be achievable and subsequently
justiciable.
In spite of the enactment of the Freedom
of Information Act which requires public institutions to make
information available to the public especially through the concept of
proactive disclosure. It now appears that nearly all public institutions
are in breach of this law. The consequence is a lack of transparency in
governance and an environment where impunity thrives. How can we change
this attitude and create a more open one in compliance with the FOI
Act?
I find it strange that after the
vigorous agitation that led to the enactment of freedom of Information
Act, the media and others who want information from government are
waiting for the law to implement itself. It is human activities that
breathe life into laws. Do we expect the government agencies that have
so long hoarded information to, all of a sudden invite people to come
and get information? We must knock on the doors of government agencies
for information and continue to knock until they answer and if need be
approach the court to compel them to comply.
The former Minister for Communications
Technology Omobola Johnson during the previous administration revealed
plans to lower taxes on Telecommunications infrastructure to make it
easier and more attractive for Telecommunication operators to invest in
long term infrastructure development. The current administration has
emphasised at various times the imperative need to make Nigeria a more
attractive investment destination by various means. However the 8th
National Assembly in the face of this important policy is entertaining a
bill which seeks to enforce a nine per cent Communication Service Tax
(CST) on charges payable by a user of an Electronic Communication
Service including Text Messages, Video Messaging and data usage, all
areas capable of generating new economic activity. Considering the
devastating effects this will likely have on internet penetration and
future investments in the Telecommunications industry, is there any
long-term benefit to such a piece of legislation going against the idea
of an attractive Nigerian market current economic conditions?
The Telecommunications Sector is one
sector of the economy that has been a win win situation for the
operators. The operators have been making super-profits and have only
been compelled by adverse public opinion to improve service to the end
users. The telecommunication companies are all privately owned or owned
by a select few who shut out members of the public from participating in
investment in telecommunication. It is only recently that MTN started
making moves to make a public offer of its shares. I do not think the
proposed law will slow down the impetus for diversification and
expansion of telecommunication industry in Nigeria.
Much has been reported in recent years
of the falling standards of Legal Education in Nigeria and what ought to
be done about this. Unfortunately those standards have only seen
marginal improvement in the overgeneralised annual Nigerian Law School
results. Some writers have even gone so far as to say that the Bar only
pays lip service to the gradually deteriorating metrics in the quality
of legal services and performance of young/new lawyers in the market.
The Nigerian Bar Association has a Legal Education Committee, how can it
begin to work with the Council of Legal Education to create the world
class legal training that is necessary to change the poor state of Legal
Education in Nigeria?
There is a positive correlation between
the standard of education in Nigeria generally and legal education in
particular. The perceived fall in the standard of legal Education owes
its cause to the general decline in the standard of Education.
In Nigeria, any student at the law
school would have passed through 6 years in primary school, 6 years in
secondary and 4 years in a University to obtain a law degree (L.L.B).
The law school programme is for one academic session, hardly long enough
to repair whatever damage our defective academic system would have
done. I am aware and it is noteworthy that the Nigerian Law School has a
new curriculum which is more practice oriented and which seeks to
refocus the students. However, after the law school, there is the need
for legal practitioners to engage in continued legal education. This is a
task that needs to be done if we are to build on the laudable efforts
of the Nigerian Law School. It is the Nigerian Law School that has the
capacity to provide continued legal Education. The Nigerian Law School
already has lecturers, libraries, classrooms and other facilities
necessary for continued legal education. Consequently the activities of
the legal Education Committee should be under the auspices of the
Nigeria Law School as partners in the improvement of the standard of
legal practice.
As a student’s union leader and the Vice
President of the University of Jos Students’ Union, your boldness and
sagacity leading students was well applauded. What is your assessment of
students’ unionism today?
Students Unionism has lost its focus in
Nigeria. Gone are the days when student unions defined National
discourse. They held strong opinions about sovereignty, National Unity,
activities of government and government policies. They were not shy to
express their opinions strongly on National Issues. The NANS the
umbrella body of students’ Union was cohesive and when they sneezed, the
government of the day catches cold. Sadly, not anymore, they are now in
splinters and their views are politicized and tribalised. They have
been infiltrated by politicians who now use them as and when they
please. I miss the days of strong, objective, well informed and
articulate student unionism.
With a first degree in Political Science
before your degree in Law, would you subscribe to the school of thought
that a first degree should be a prerequisite for admission to study Law
in Nigeria?
Law is a profession and like all
professions, you must have burning desire for the profession. It is that
motivation that will see you overcome whatever obstacle that stands
between you and the attainment of your Call to Bar. In my case I wanted
to study law, political science happened; I completed a degree in
political science in 1988 from University of Jos. I went ahead to apply
for direct entry to study law at the University of Lagos. That year, the
government of the day commenced a policy that refused graduates direct
entry admission to study law. By that policy only candidates with
A’Levels were entitled to direct entry admission to study law. Yours
sincerely with a B.sc in Political Science went ahead to sit for A
‘Level exams, got the requisite number of points and was admitted to
study law at University of Lagos. I was finally called to Bar in 1996 No
thanks to all the ASUU Strikes and consequent closure of Universities.
Aside burning desire, you must have the
right aptitude; a sound mind and the right training you must have a
sound mind because law is a product of reasoning and reasoning is a
product of the mind. You must attend good schools with competent
faculties. Attending a university that has one or two visiting
professors and mostly junior lecturers can hardly give one adequate
training to be a lawyer. Therefore 1st degree without these pre-requites
will not necessarily confer an advantage on a graduate over a
non-graduate in the study of law.
We live in a society with many
inadequacies and many prevalent needs admittedly. However many times too
much attention is devoted to these inadequacies and gaps in planning
rather than to filling and catering to them according to what we as
individuals can contribute to society. You founded the Chike Okagbue
Foundation (COF) in the memory of your late father Chike Nwankwo Okagbue
presumably to meet some of those needs in your immediate environment.
What does the Chike Okagbue Foundation focus on achieving? How is the
Foundation managing to meet these needs and lastly how is it bringing
these needs to the attention of those responsible for creating a
societal framework for proactively catering to them?
The Chike Okagbue Foundation (COF) was
set up to honor the memory of my late father, Chike Okagbue. An
accomplished businessman, a lover of education who pursued education
informally. His library could boast of the works of great philosophers,
politicians and historians of our time. His love for education informed
our decision to make education the main focus of COF. The Foundation
awards scholarship on merit to students who have excelled in Common
Entrance Examinations. Ten students are taken annually. The ten students
are chosen on merit. They are offered full scholarship through Junior
and Senior Secondary School Education. Twenty students have so far
graduated under the auspices of the foundation; Ten last year and ten
this year. We have currently 50 students in our chosen school. It is our
hope that if funds are available, we will take them beyond secondary
school in future. Presently the Foundation is mainly funded by me. It is
also our hope and expectation that other well-meaning Nigerians will
borrow a leaf from our humble effort and touch lives accordingly. Apart
from Education, the Foundation also engages in other philanthropic
works.
Your TV show Discourse with Chinelo has
been running for more than 10 years now focusing on how the activities
of government, government agencies, the organised private sector and
individuals impact society. How does your platform affect or offer
remedies of our prevalent societal ills?
“Healthwise” which started in 2000 was
actually the forerunner of “Discourse with Chinelo.” Then it was the
only Health talk show in Abuja. Healthwise made so much impact,
educating and enlightening viewers on all forms of Health related issues
that the Association of Resident doctors gave us an Award in 2003.
Discourse with Chinelo debuted in 2004.
It was to enable us discuss issues other than health. So in addition to
health related issues we now discuss law, economic and other aspects of
daily living. We X-ray the activities of government agencies, ministries
among others. The impact has been enormous. Take the Ombudsman for
instance, so many did not know that Nigerian Ombudsman the Public
Complaints Commission is up and running and that they could handle their
complaints free and they get remedies. Ditto for other agencies and
parastatals. On a daily basis, we are inundated by comments and
inquiries from viewers seeking information. Like our slogan goes it is
“public enlightenment at its best.”
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